Spanish critics/ratings
Spanish critics/ratings
Ver mensaje de rayolI have bought the Peñín guide for the first time.
Browsing through it I’m surprised by many low ratings. The same is true of elmundovino.
Do I overate my favourite Spanish wines or do others here feel the same ?
The ratings given on this site seem to support my view.
Who is regarded highly for wine criticism in Spain ?
Re: Spanish critics/ratings
Ver mensaje de rayolRay,
My impression is that Peñín is best known and the most comprehensive. Guia Proensa also has a following and the ratings tend to be higher. No matter whether a critic tends to score low or high, I think he can be marginally useful if the scoring is consistent because you can simply calibrate your palate to the critic’s. Unfortunately, I find Peñín a little inconsistent, but I do sometimes find that the scope of his guide book is useful.
The lesson is ...
Ver mensaje de WaltZalenskiI agree Walt.
The lesson is to use them only as a guide and trust ones own palate.
I had a wine recently which I really enjoyed and as it was new to me I looked it up in elmundovino and was really surprised to see a low score. Thankfully I have grown out of the habit of buying on points but I would not have sought this one out if I had only ever seen it on the site.
The last wine I bought on the basis of a rave review was Beryna 2003 and have yet to taste it....though the annual visit is getting closer.
Re: The lesson is ...
Ver mensaje de rayolIn Spain, apart from Verema.com ;) I sort of like Guia de vinos Gourmet and mundovino. Both have lower rates than USA rates, but University and school rates in Spain are MUCH lower than their counteparts in USA; according to my experience, everything has to be rated only as very good, extremely good or superb over there ;)), and here we do flunk a big chunk of students ... in traditional Spanish ratings, a 5 over 10 (and not a 7 over 10) is a ";pass";, and ElMundoVino has the most consistent ratings with traditional Spanish ones (except that they are multiplied by 2). I usually like them a lot (except that often I can not find the wine I am looking for). All that said, I’m increasingly seing the influence of USA ratings in Spain lately - even in Verema, there are tons (and tons) of comments stating that the wine is not satisfactory, but giving it a ";7"; (which, in Scholar rating, is a very good one)... I think that this is the influence of schools nowadays when everybody passes, and the proportions of people flunking are geting smaller and smaller (which is not an indication of students being better and better at all). To me, Peñin is very very useful guide because it has way more wines than any other, and it is not very far from my own taste in a decent percentage of times (but it tends to overrate the wines, so that ";everybody is happy"; ;)) ... By the way, do try the Beryna ... here costs about 6€ and it is a superb wine considering it cost (and the winemaker and the people in the cellar are very very nice).
MaJesus
Re: The lesson is ...
Ver mensaje de MaJesusMaJesus,
don’t worry will try the Beryna..it was a joke for Walt as I bought a case after his review, have to get to Spain first.
Thanks for your insights into grading and the link to school grades.
This would make sense.
A problem with the Parker scores (or more accurately those using his scores) is that a wine if enjoyed automatically seems to score a 90-93 and this seems very high to me but conversely some elmundo scores
at 12 - 14 seem very low.
I recently enjoyed a wine given 12 and thought it rated much more. Thats what sparked my comments. It was more than ";a correct"; wine.
Re: The lesson is ...
Ver mensaje de rayolTrue, some few wines sometimes get a surprisingly low rate in ElMundo; still I prefer this to the overly inflated rates (we are going to end up rating all wines from 8.5 to 10, which seems a waste of scaling). Yesterday I posted a little Friday exercise to convert ElMundo (or verema, multiplied by 2) to Parker and vice-versa. The (approximate) result is as follows (with rough rounding):
Verema(ElMundo) Parker
6 (12) 76
7 (14) 82
8 (16) 88
9 (18) 94
9.5 (19) 96
Parker Verema (ElMundo)
80 6.7 (13.4)
85 7.5 (15)
90 8.4 (16.8)
95 9.2 (18.4)
97 9.6 (19.2)
The details are somehow boring (I gave some, but not all in Spanish at
https://www.verema.com/comunidad/foro/mensaje.asp?mensaje=106389
if you are interested, you can e-mail me and I can send you all the glory details (in English)
have a nice weekend!
MaJesus
Re: The lesson is ...
Ver mensaje de MaJesusThanks for your calculations !
it proves my point perfectly.
It shows a correlation between an elmundo score of 19 and a Parker 96
Now I have seen MANY Parker 96’s and cannot recall EVER seeing an elmundo 19 !!
Now for part two of your exercise we could see the various scores given to the same wines by all three !
Also I think you are correct in pointing out that its better not to have inflation in scores.
It may not be factually true but I have the feeling that when I read my first Parker book (1990 ish ) there were fewer high 90’s scores and it is the giving of high points that fuels the point hunters and leads to price inflation. People want to taste perfection.
If Robert Parker was awarding low 90’s or mid 80’s would people buy on points so much ?
I mean how often do people rush out to buy a wine given 15 by elmundo ?
Re: The lesson is ...
Ver mensaje de rayolYou are prefectly right: price inflantion might be due in good measure by point inflation ... good ";point"; :))
The proposed calibration was just a mere little exercise, and I assumed 5% of wines above 19 MundoVino, and above 97 Parker, which, as you point out, might be way overestimating the true proportion for MundoVino and underestimating for Parker (and actually we could exactly match these proportions to the actual proportions, if someone knows this; or other possibilities ... )
MaJesus